Episode 404: Fight Like a Founder - Women in Sports and Business | Lynn Le

"Each time a woman stands up for herself, without knowing it possibly, without claiming it, she stands up for all women." — Maya Angelou

Businesses play a major role in our society and most entrepreneurs aspire to make a positive social impact in the world through the products or services they offer. Your business can create opportunities and provide benefits to your clients that help unlock their potential and turn their dreams into reality. 

Whether the focus is on empowering your clients to take on physical challenges or challenging the social status quo, there is power in your story and in the products and services you provide. 

In this episode, Lynn Le and I had a great time talking about everything from building a business and raising capital to pushing against societal expectations of women, people of color, and first-generation Americans.  At the time of our interview, Afghanistan and increasing violence against the Asian American community were hot topics, and Lynn shared how those two issues impacted her as a woman of Vietnamese heritage. It was amazing to learn even more about how identity shapes experiences in sport and in business and how those worlds intersect via Society Nine. Lynn talked about throwing her first punch in Krav Maga being a “spiritual awakening” that eventually led to the creation of Society Nine so that women did not have to compromise when practicing martial arts.

Learn how you can create a positive social impact as an entrepreneur in this episode with Lynn Le, a kickboxing instructor and the founder of Society Nine. Having made Forbes’ list of 30 Under 30 - Retail & E-commerce in 2018, Lynn started her business at a young age and still maintains the passion for social change and drive to succeed to this day.   She shares valuable advice to entrepreneurs on how to practice empathy and manage the mental load of entrepreneurship while problem-solving the everyday challenges that come your way.

Be inspired as she shares her journey from martial arts instructor to CEO in a male-dominated industry, where she focuses on empathy and gratitude to lead Society Nine in “celebrating the fight in every woman.”

Thriving Points: 

• It's important to really think about the societal influence and implications of the work that we do. - Nikki Rogers
• I knew how important it was to have the tools and what it could do to unlock an individual's potential -especially women in this context. - Lynn Le 
• Your job as the business owner is to extract that vision or that point of view of how this can keep going on and permeate that through the DNA of your customer. - Lynn Le
• If you want to fundraise as an entrepreneur, you have to ask yourself, “What am I willing to trade for that money?". - Lynn Le

Other resources mentioned:

• Start with Why by Simon Sinek

Get to Know the Guest:

          Lynn Le is a Kickboxing Instructor and the founder and CEO of Society Nine. She empowers women and their fight through her business of providing a modern female sports brand that produces high-quality boxing gear and sportswear. Lynn has been featured in Forbes’ list of 30 Under 30 - Retail & Ecommerce for 2018 and  Glamour Magazine.

Connect with Lynn:

• Website
• Instagram

Transcript

Nikki Rogers: Your business is an asset that can support a thriving life. I believe this, and I'm committed to making this a reality for every entrepreneur and business owner who listens to this podcast. The Women Thriving in Business Podcast was created with you in mind, whether you were thinking about entrepreneurship or you're a business veteran, this podcast has inspiration, information, and advice you can use to thrive in business.

Women Thriving in Business features candid, unscripted conversations with entrepreneurs, business experts, authors, and academics who will contribute to your business success. I seek out and talk with business leaders who have built, grown, and thrive in business. My name is Nikki Rogers, transformation coach, author, and the host of the Women Thriving in Business Podcast. I work with women entrepreneurs to develop the mindset, strategies, and connections necessary to thrive in business. Join me and your fellow Thrivers each week on this journey of discovery and success.

Welcome Thrivers to this week's episode of Women Thriving in Business Podcast. My guest this week is Lynn Le, the founder of Society Nine. Now, during our conversation, Lynn and I have touched on so many things from what it takes to build a business and raise capital, especially in the male-dominated sports equipment industries that she's in to what it feels like to push against some of those societal expectations of women, people of color, and first-generation Americans.

Lynn and I talked about several hot topics, some of the things that she is really passionate about, the things that really make her angry, and those things that she has overcome in order to build the successful business that she has today. It's really amazing to learn how identity within both sports and business intersect, and how those things have come together in order to create Lynn's business in Society Nine. We talked about how she went from being a martial arts instructor, specifically, kickboxing to then prototyping and creating a boxing glove, specifically focused on women users.

We talked specifically about how Lynn went from being a kickboxing instructor to becoming the founder of a sportswear business, where she has actually created the first boxing glove for women. We talked about how she went from being a kickboxing instructor to now the CEO and founder of a sports equipment company focused on providing proper equipment for women who are practicing martial arts. So to tell you about Lynn, Lynn Le is the founder and CEO of Society Nine, a modern fem-boxing brand providing boxing gear and sportswear to empower you in your fight. She was named to Forbes' 30 Under 30 and retail e-commerce for the class of 2018, and the Portland Business Journal's Forty Under 40 for 2017. Lynn is passionate about doing everything in her power to encourage all self-identified women to own their strength and power in order to unlock their fullest potential.

And Lynn's mantra at Society Nine is that she is celebrating the fight in every woman. So listen in to my conversation with Lynn Le, where she talks about how she focuses on leveraging empathy, as well as managing the mental load that comes with entrepreneurship while working to problem solve the everyday issues that are going on in her business. Listen in to this episode for some great tips. Let's go. 

Welcome, Lynn, to the Women Thriving in Business Podcast. I'm so delighted to have you here with us today. 

Lynn Le: Thanks for having me. 

Nikki Rogers: We're going to just get right into it. So Lynn, tell us about Society Nine, and what got you started on your entrepreneurial journey? 

Lynn Le: Okay, loaded question. I'm going to make sure it's not a memoir because it feels like a memoir already. So my name is Lynn Le, and I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Society Nine. We are a modern femme sports brand providing boxing gear and sportswear to empower women in their fight. And I started this business really as a labor and passion, but I didn't really see the opportunity until it was presented in front of me because of where I was at. So I was a kickboxing instructor. I was working a full-time job, but my passion was my nights and weekends in the gym. I taught kickboxing, and I was also really passionate about something called Krav Maga, which is an Israeli self-defense martial art.

I got my brown belt in that which is one of the more advanced belts you can get in the system. But in teaching and training, I was surrounded by women all the time, of course. And they would always ask me, where could I find good gloves as an instructor? And I realized I didn't have a recommendation for them. I was wearing gloves that semi-fit me, but I had to double wrap my hands all the time just to get a good grip on the glove. Because when you're punching, you want to make a good fist. That's actually a way to protect your hands because you have so many small bones, and if you punch with your fist slightly open, it actually makes it more susceptible to injury.

So anyway, I was compromising. Long and the short of it, I was compromising. And I realized that a lot of the women who I was teaching, they kept saying, all I can find are really low-quality bubblegum pink gloves. I want something that's "normal", or just makes me not stand out in this way. Because for some of the women, it's cheap, it looks childish, it makes me feel like I'm not being taken seriously, and it's low quality. It doesn't even fit my hand. So fundamentally, it was basically the men's smaller boxing gloves turned pink. That's really what existed before we came along. So I started developing a boxing glove that was designed to fit women a bit better. We pulled together a focus group of several hundred women. Got their height, weight, and hand measurements to really understand their fit preferences and needs. And that fundamentally is what went into the fit specifications for the actual design of the glove. So our most known product is a boxing glove designed for women. We launched on Kickstarter in 2015. That was a year zero because you launch hoping you hit your campaign goal, and then it's off to the races. But our true year one was 2016 because that's when we were able to fulfill all the orders and actually put the glove on the market as it was available. And we've been around since, and we've expanded to other products. Since then, we're still mostly well-known for our boxing gloves. 

Nikki Rogers: Great. Thank you for sharing that, Lynn. I want to unpack a couple of things that you talked about. One, what got you interested in martial arts and then becoming an instructor? So that's part one. And then part two, even as you were seeing this need in the market, what made you say, I'm going to tackle this issue and actually create a product to serve this niche? 

Lynn Le: Yes, so the first question is, why did I feel... Wait, say the questions one more time. 

Nikki Rogers: So the question is what got you started in martial arts? And then the second question is around, as you saw this need in the market, what made you say that I'm going to actually create a product to fill this niche and to serve this audience? 

Lynn Le: Got it. Okay. So martial arts, a lot of people like to stereotype because I'm Vietnamese-American and Asian. And there's a stereotype of like, oh, you've probably done karate and Taekwondo as a kid, didn't you? Actually, no. I didn't throw my first punch until right after college. I was a recreational athlete at best. I ran and I worked out a little bit. But I didn't really grow up playing team sports because we couldn't afford it growing up. And I'm always a theater geek because after school like that was one afterschool program that was free. And so, in high school, I was a theater geek. College, I didn't really play any sports. But after I graduated, I really struggled to find a physical challenge that I was excited about. And I really also felt like growing up, I was always told by my dad that Vietnamese culture like many different cultures has its own patriarchal misogynistic elements to it. They typically mean well, but some aspects of that can still be demeaning. My dad growing up would always say, make sure you find a nice man to take care of you, protect you. There's always that little voice in the back of your head. And you think about that when you're dating or you're booing up as I say, or whatever.

The truth of it is, I thought it was ridiculous that I had to keep my eyes on the prize as in like someone needs to come to send me off my feet, take care of me at all times. It just didn't make sense to me, but I also didn't know what to do about it. And so, out of my own curiosity, I saw that there was a Krav Maga self-defense gym here in Portland. And out of my own curiosity, I went to my first class. I threw a punch. I grew up doing dance classes and stuff so I had some natural coordination. And the kind of feedback response I got, student-teacher really resonated with me. So the first punch I threw, the instructor was like, you have really good form for a first-timer. Maybe that was the membership ploy, who knows, but it got me hooked enough that I kept coming, and I kept getting better, better. And I got my brown belt within two or three years, which is not a long time because there's the yellow belt, orange belt, green, blue, and brown. So I made it all the way to brown within three years. 

And so that first punch was like a spiritual awakening. I never knew how strong I could be. People always say, oh, you're strong enough. But it's like, when you feel it, when you actually feel it in your bones, in your muscle, in your veins, it's really transformative. And that's why I always encourage women. Women are shy and they're like, I don't know if that's for me. I don't want to hit anyone, I don't want to hurt anyone. It's not about that, it's more about you. It's more about feeling that sense of self-preservation of, you're not going to cross me today. It's that energy that you get to develop. And then yes, in a worst-case scenario, if you are triggered on the street or in a circumstance or situation, you feel like you can carry yourself because that's literally in your bones, it's in your heart. So for me, it was actually a very transformative journey.

And that actually leads to your second question which is, it drove me to start this because to me, instructing and getting these questions from my students being like, where do I find good gloves? That's like level one of it. It's like, okay, you need the tool to do the damn thing. Now, the second piece of that is like, okay, well, what does that tool enable you to do? So for me, the mission was actually a lot deeper. Yes, the timing of where the market was at with boxing fitness becoming up there with spin and yoga. It's still a long way to go from yoga but I'm just saying that the come-up that it was hitting in terms of casual mainstream fitness was on its way and I could see it. But the fact that women didn't have a tool that was designed with thinking about them and putting them first and saying, you know what, this is for youThere's never that reverse engineering of like, this is a brand, a sports brand that actually started product design with women first. You don't see that happen that often. And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to go down in flames or I'm going to go for it. So that mission was really important to me which is not just about the tool, it's about what the tool can unlock. And I saw that innately in my own experience personally, and then with my students being a teacher. So I knew how important it was to have the tools, what they could do to unlock an individual's potential and especially women in this context. So that's still what drives every customer service email, or every Instagram post. I want a woman to see this and be like, yes, I'm about that. Or like, I want to be a part of that community. I'm down with that group. I'll mess with them. 

Nikki Rogers: Great. As you were talking about your journey to martial arts, I was really seeing the parallels with being an entrepreneur and that whole, I can do this. I can take this on, and I can even take a punch or a setback in my business, and be able to get up a fight again. So I was enthralled, and I was really seeing the parallels there. 

Lynn Le: It's really cliche, but sometimes when I pitch to a bank or an investor or something for funding, they always ask you the question of, what can you say about your sense of resiliency or whatever? And honestly, I've had my nose beaten and I have felt actual physical pain. So everything else is really hard. But I just know that if I just take a deep breath, get a sip of water and get my bearings and maybe even a nap, I can just keep on chipping away. And you could still win the round. You totally still can. Sometimes you can psych people out with that bloody nose. They're like, ooh, yes, she's down for the count. And then all of a sudden, she's up and out. So it's very analogous to real life. 

Nikki Rogers: I love it. I love it. And speaking of which, what have been some of the challenges that you have dealt with in being a woman entrepreneur, being a woman of color, entering really into this mostly male-dominated sports equipment field? And you're making products for women who have traditionally not been a target market. So what were some of the challenges that you've had to face in building your business? 

Lynn Le: For any business owner who's listening to this or whatever, there's definitely the very obvious, just the general operational stuff. I always say you can knowledge-share with other business owners, but the truth is, no one wrote a book about your story.  So I could go on and on like the laundry list of, oh yes, I remember that. One time, our holiday shipment, it was just sitting with customs and border patrol because we got lucky and they pulled the lottery ticket on inspecting our shipment. And nobody got Christmas presents, do you remember that? Yes. You can't do anything about that. You can't just call up CBP and be like, hey. They do not care about you. So it doesn't matter. That was like year one or year two when I was the only employee. I had some contract where it goes like, it was only me, so I literally thought it was over. And that was the year 2017, the worst holiday season in my life. Although this holiday season with COVID and all of the inventory shortages, this year may end up being its own thing. But that's a whole other conversation, I won't go down.

I think one of the challenges, when you start a business that no one tells you about, is you always have to think about how you balance the emotional side. What do you do to make sure that you're whole every day? What you do to make sure it's such a, oh my gosh, I hate this cliche, but I'm just going to say it. It is such a marathon. We're entering year six right now. We survived the pandemic. We're still dealing with it, and we're a team of three now. We have three employees, including myself, and four contractors. And even still, I move every day with trepidation because I'm literally like, what's going to happen that's out of my control yet again? So it's sobering in the sense of, you know what, if we could handle last year, we're going to be fine this year. And on the other hand, it just feels like, man, how do you overcome it? Like you already overcame that and yet this year hasn't really improved. It's improved and it hasn't. I have such empathy for service workers, frontline workers, and healthcare. People just have no idea. When I watch people now, bebop about life or just treating service workers, healthcare, or whatever, with just such a lack of realization that the state that we are in is still awful. 

It is still materially impacting a lot of people. So when I saw a snarky customer complaining of a wait time, I actually called someone out the other day. We were in a coffee shop and someone did a to-go order for pickup, they showed up and it wasn't ready. And the person who was working was like, I'm so sorry, we've just been slammed. And we've been trying to juggle both pickups and whatever. We're going to get it to you within the next 5-10 minutes. But the person literally had the nerve to be like, what's the point of me ordering pickup when I show up and it's not even here? I was like, excuse me, sir, everybody here is doing their best. You probably are in your life as well. So 5 to 10 more minutes really probably isn't going to change your predicament. But you know what, your kindness would be. So wait alongside the rest of us. I just think that lack of empathy has been the most jarring thing of the human experience.

Running a business, and our whole mission is to empower women to be their strongest selves and to just pull the beast outside from within. And we're encouraging that energy so it requires a lot of empathy and feeling of, what does our customer's day look like right now? What could it look like? So that empathy vein, it feels almost too intense all the time, because as a Vietnamese woman as well, I haven't really even had time to process the substantial increase in API hate crimes. I haven't been able to participate in as many race relations conversations as I would like especially between non-white communities as well as with white communities. And I say non-white communities because there are complicated histories between Asian communities or black communities, brown, indigenous communities. So you have the interracial stuff, and then you also have the greater white supremacy conversation and how that all comes into play. So as a business owner sitting all that, knowing that we have customers that sit on all ends of the spectrum, and as an immigrant's daughter too. Sometimes it feels suffocating. When people ask, how are you doing, Lynn? It's such a triggering question. You're like, what do I even say? 

Nikki Rogers: Right. And do you really want to know the answer right now? 

Lynn Le: I'm like, I can give you the sunny days, bright smile and thumbs up, or I can really unload on you and be like, well, I had a conversation with my family the other day about the Afghanistan crisis because that's basically Vietnam all over again. Or the fact that our holiday shipment might not be here at all, so then what do you do as a business when you've been growing, growing, growing, growing, and now you might have a down year, even though everything was lined up. It's just like, what are you going to do with that?

Nikki Rogers: Right. It sounds like the biggest challenge, and I think this is one that most entrepreneurs will share is managing their emotions. It's the mental load, it's the swings from the highs and lows that happened probably throughout the day. And so when you think about that, what is it that you've found to be helpful in helping you get through that? Do you have any rituals? Do you have any practices that you can turn to when this issue gets heavy? 

Lynn Le: Yes. I would say the biggest one is the simplest and the deepest at the same time, especially this year in particular,  I just keep reminding myself that I am my ancestor's greatest dream. I just keep saying that real talk. There are no words to describe what it was like to see the images of what was happening in Afghanistan and just be so triggered even though I didn't even live that. I am a receiver of stories and horrifically complicated journeys that were dangerous. And to have those visuals now happening in my generation, in my time I'm like, oh my God. So I think when I sit here and I'm having this conversation with you, and I'm thinking about the 50 other things that I need to do on top of my move in, I just personally move. When I think about all that stuff, I'm like, I am still my ancestor's greatest dream. My parents tell me all the time and they're like, you and your sister we’re just so grateful. This is exactly what we hoped and dreamed for. And so, that's really the solace that I have within me. And I start with that. That's like my baseline because that's intrinsic, that's internal, that's blood, that's the heart. And then from there, I'm like, okay. Yes, I need to go hit a boxing bag. I need to lift something heavy. I needed to sweat exorbitantly because I need to excrete all of the intensity in my body right now. So there are the privileged layers on top of that. But at minimum, there is like the, I come from some real tough fighters and I take a lot of pride in that. I take that really seriously, which is why I'm always like, Lynn, keep your head together because they're watching you from the sky. My grandparents and my parents are watching me now. And I know they're proud of me and all that stuff, but I look at it as don't squander. Don't squander your opportunity to be breathing, eating, housed, to just figure it out.

Yes, it's tough and you feel like, what the heck? How on earth am I going to get through anything? But then you're like, you know what, start at the baseline. And I do that all the time, all day because I get questions all the time about mental toughness. I'm no therapist, but I'm like, when I say it's a practice, I mean it. I mean like I'm talking to myself like I'm out of my mind in my head, every single half-hour probably. Every 15 minutes, I'm probably psyching myself out about something that I'm feeling. And that's the kind of mental diligence you have to have, like, keep playing the right records. People play bad records and there are good records. And I really do my best to make sure I break the bad ones as quickly as I have them, or if they're bad habits, I still try my best to say, nope, got to flip that one back in the case. Put that away. So it always starts with that. 

Nikki Rogers: I love that. You talked about your parents and your grandparents. Can you talk a bit about how your upbringing has influenced you in one, taking the leap to become a business owner, or even just how you operate as a business owner? 

Lynn Le: I think I keep using the word empathy a lot, but I feel like that has been, I'm not perfect. But I do feel that my sense of awareness around how nuanced certain things can hurt people, so nuance can hurt people. They can destroy communication. They can destroy relationships, new or old. It can destroy community bonds. It can destroy relationships with customers. Nuance is everything. If there's nothing that we haven't learned about our political divisiveness and cultural divisiveness right now, it's that. There's enough room for nuance. Now there are, of course, certain things that are very overtly wrong. Having said that, I think the way that I grew up, I saw I was raised Buddhist. And so there's a lot of different tenets and Buddhism that really actually might seem selfish to the average person, but are really so true now as I've gotten older. So one key tenant is really focused around you being whole first before you can be your all to others. Because in Buddhism there's a cause and effect philosophy, which is like, for every cause, there's an effect. So if you are the cause for your relationships' fall tree, if you are the cause for your employee's lack of wellbeing, if you are the cause for X, Y, and Z, it all transcends you. So they actually require that you focus really inwards in order to create the best community and environment that there can be because you are a part of that community and that's the web by which you spread.

And so, I think that has allowed me to have a unique connection with our customers and the way that we tell our story as a brand, the way we communicate, because for a long time, at least in the microcosm that is the boxing industry, the fitness industry, the wellness industry, we're at the intersection of all of that. There are a lot of issues that are relevant to what we're seeing in politics and culture right now. Whether it's the fact that there's an extreme lack of diversity in what is represented in the health and wellness industry. The fact that people of certain skin tones or body types are advertised moreover others, or sexual orientation as well. The fact that there are pay gaps everywhere still in those industries. The fact that there are so few female CEOs of sports brands of any sort, whether it's sporting goods, retail, or whatever, and then you go at the professional sports level, lack of female representation there. And if you even look at professional female boxers or professional female mixed martial arts fighters, you have pay gaps there. You have gaps in marketing. And then the argument from fight promoters and stuff, it's like, well, they don't sell enough tickets. I'm like, well, you're talking about the chicken and egg problem. Ronda Rousey is a perfect example of that. She was the first female fighter of the UFC, and they dumped millions to promote her. Well deserved. But it's like, they focus on one, and then when she decides to do something else or whatever, then it's like, oh, okay, we've got no one else.

It's like, no. Then you have mostly male executives choosing to tokenize whoever it is that they want. They extract in true capitalistic fashion, extract everything they can possibly get from them. And once they're "done", whether it's because the executives are no longer interested because they're like, we've moved on. The shiny object syndrome. We've either moved on, or the fighter has retired or whatever. Then they just stop. And so, you're talking about all these starts and stops in the industry, and there's no better example of this than the US Women's National Soccer Team. Whenever anyone asks me, how do you feel about equity and health wellness, core fitness, all the boxing, and all the things? I'm like, look no further than the US Women's National Soccer Team, because everything that they're experiencing as the most elite sports team in the world, bar none, within any sport category. And the fact that they're enduring what they're enduring between sponsorship and pay from their own federation is crazy to me. Because it's the perfect example of, you can work 50 times as hard as a woman and still not get pager work. No trophy, no whatever is going to be enough. 

So I think that empathy runs really deep. And then when I think about how the business is run in that way, I think about it in all those things which is a lot. I know I just went on and on for ten minutes. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. But it's so intertwined, which is why, especially being in the fitness industry, I've always felt that we're not talking about the intersectionality of all these things enough. It’s always just to get better skin, lose weight, feel good, move around. It's always so one-note. 

Nikki Rogers: And I think even the women's soccer team, the WNBA is the women's basketball team which actually has more wins than the women's soccer team but we never talk about that. So when you talk about intersectionality, it's when you talk about women and women of color, that intersection, the air gets even more rarefied and there's less representation. So I think it is this constant, is a continued battle back to the name of your company, Society Nine, being based on Title IX Legislation. That was just the beginning. That didn't make everything equal. It presented an opportunity that's still, I think, women have to fight for. 

Lynn Le: It's like the bare minimum. 

Nikki Rogers: Right. 

Lynn Le: It was okay, you can play with us. But everything else doesn’t ask for it like... 

Nikki Rogers: Don't ask for the equipment, don't ask for the trainers, don't ask the coaches, don't ask for those things because you're allowed to play, but you know. 

Lynn Le: Exactly, yes. And the Olympics also is just crazy to me. The fact that there are sponsored athletes by Cannabis Company, and then you've got Shakira Richardson who absolutely could have podiumed at the Olympics. And she's the one who gets penalized? Marijuana is like this close, I mean, I don't have that against a whole other podcast episode, but it's just like, we're this close to being federally fair on all marijuana laws. And you're really trying to tell me that you just basically gave up a potential gold medal for the United States because of what? And she's not the only black female athlete, of course, to experience some BS ramifications. And so, ooh, I'm heated. I'm sorry. For the listeners, I'm sorry. Your girl's heated right now. I'm sweating. My hands are clammy. I'm about to hit something right now. I'm just getting lit. 

Nikki Rogers: This is all good. All good. I think it's important to really think about the societal influence implications of the work that we do. So you talked about it, not just being about making better equipment for women, but what it actually enabled. So I think if we think about that as we think about our businesses, what would that do to the world when you think about the societal impact of your business, the social reach of your business? What are you doing for people's lives? And in your case, it's not just like, oh, you got some great gloves. No, this is really enabling a different way of thinking, a different way of being that has a wide-reaching impact. 

Lynn Le: I think as women we're innate nurturers. And so, I think that is our superpower. It's our superpower to be thinking, well, who can I take care of? And I think for Society Nine, that is still what we think about. We donate and support a lot of different youth boxing programs and self-defense programs that are in marginalized communities, or that support, for example, trans communities. We've supported domestic violence shelters or agencies that have specific physical and mental health empowerment programs to help support and rehabilitate clients. And so, that word "enable" to me is a really powerful word. I think about it all the time because anyone can make stuff. I guess if I was going to give you all a pro tip, my humble opinion, I feel like if you, as an entrepreneur, want to make something, sure, you can make a widget. You can make a new pancake mix for all I know. But think about the next step beyond that. Okay, that pancake mix is so delicious. It's gluten-free. It's got this, it's got that, whatever. But what does it do? Maybe your thing is it enables young kids to get in the kitchen more with their parents and learn how to cook at a younger age to create long-lasting bonds. That's different than saying we're a pancake mix company. It's like, no, what does it enable you to do? And I feel like the brands that really inspire me or I'm like, oh yes, that is something that I really am wanting to spend harder in money on is thinking about that. What does it actually enable you to do?

Of course, you want it to be a quality product and all that stuff, but the level one. That's level one. Level two is like, okay, how do you go beyond that? And that's your job as the business owner, the founder, to extract that vision or extract that point of view of how does this keeps going on and on and permeates through the DNA of your customer? So when I think about, okay, boxing gloves, it enables you to do fitness. Okay, what does that fitness do to the person? It enables them to feel empowered, strong, a sense of perseverance, self-preservation, or whatever. So that's the enable. And then what's the third level of that, what does it do to that person than in the real world? Okay. Well, it makes them feel maybe a little safer to walk alone on the street. Maybe it makes them feel like they can advocate for a better salary at work. Maybe it enables them to stand up for themselves in their relationship or their friendships. Those are all the lines. And so when I think about Title IX, that's actually what I feel like Title IX has enabled women to do in sports.

Not just be able to play the sport, not just become a professional. People who did Title IX or benefited from college or collegiate athletics or collegiate activities of any sort, enabled them to be the future leaders of America. Women, in particular, enabled them to be the future leaders of America. That's actually the legacy of Title IX. It wasn't just, we get to play sports with the boys now, too. No, it's that and also... So when I think about legacy, I think about things in that context of how far does this line go, and can it keep going? Which still cracks me up sometimes when a giant truck of boxing gloves shows up as a delivery. We are a boxing glove company but every single time we send out a pair of gloves, I do think about that. I'm like Jane Doe in North Dakota. I have no clue how hard her day is, I have no clue what she's doing right now, or I do know because it's a shared experience. It's when she's hitting the crap out of that bag, she probably feels like the baddest person on earth. That's awesome. Go get them, Jane. Keep on killing it, sis. Do that.

Nikki Rogers: As you think about what you want to see in the world and the impact that you have, how do you decide on the companies that you partner with? I know you've done a partnership with EleVen. I think that was also a fundraiser effort as well. So, maybe talk a little bit about how that came about and then, how you decide on who you partner with as you're growing your brand? 

Lynn Le: Yes. So when we think about any sort of relationship, whether it's something as simple as an Instagram giveaway or shared messaging about a cause or just anything that is mutually beneficial whether it is to sell a product or not, I guess the fundamental goal is to sell a product. But just in the context of everything, the thing I think about the most is, are their values aligned? When it gets not enough to just say, oh, this is a fellow women-owned business and then stop there. Obviously, you probably learned from me now. I'm a multi-layered thinker. I'm like, okay, step one is yes. There's that sense of camaraderie on that point. But on the second point, it's like, if you're a fellow female business owner who is very anti-immigration, well, the fact that my existence wouldn't even happen, I wouldn't be here as a business owner talking to you. If my parents weren't able to escape as refugees and then became immigrants here, again, there are some fundamental fine lines that just will not work. But when I think about values, that's the absolute first thing. And then mutually shared missions, that's another one. And then the other part too is, would their community and vice-versa just benefit from knowing each other? 

I actually use the analogy of a gym community as to how I think about engagement. It's like you're taking the first class, you don't know anyone but the people who've been training there forever, welcome you and say, hi, are you new here? That's the kind of energy I want to feel from any potential partner is like, how do they collaborate? How do they talk about hard things? Because I don't think you can run a business in a siloing, more certainly some people do. From business in a silo, they don't think about people's problems. They don't think about housing and living standards and wages. All they just think about is productiveness. But I think it's really important to work with people that just have a general awareness that like, yes, running a business is very hard. But also, these are the things that we actively think about first.

And I think when you partner with people like that, then it makes anything that you do together fun. Working with EleVen, the fact that the brand is owned by Venus William, was a really cool collaboration. Especially because it was during women's history month in March, and it was a great way to bring awareness around a mutually shared value or concern, which is women's pay equity. And of course, Venus has experienced that in spades as a black woman at the elite level of tennis, and yet, she still has all these obstacles and be as cultural, societal standards or norms that are inherently racist and misogynistic. So that was definitely a no-brainer. Yes, she's famous like nice and all, but Venus is a human and this is what she still endures despite her prestige. So we were honored to be a part of something like that. But that's the kind of stuff we like to think about because we want our customers to be thinking about it too while they're hitting the bag. Because no doubt, the reason why they're hitting that bag is on an elementary level, it starts with vanity. Yes, I want to feel good. I want to feel fit. Maybe lose some weight, or just stay a little tramp. Whatever that means from a vanity perspective. But it always turns out deeper.

And I know this from personal experience, as well as being an instructor and seeing it on the other side when you're serving as a therapist to all of your students. You can see the transformative habits and behaviors of a person when they do it. You can't know their experience, but you could get a sense of like, okay, this is what they bring to the table here. And then they unload and then they come out renewed and refreshed. So yes, I hope that answers your question. 

Nikki Rogers: It does. It does. As you think about all that you've accomplished over the last few years, what would you say that you're most proud of relative to Society Nine? 

Lynn Le: This is a new practice, so you guys are getting the new and improved Lynn as of September 28th, 2021. When I say new practice, I mean in the last three weeks. So the journey is never-ending, friends. Just really embracing that the win is that I did it, that we did it. It makes me think about that, okay, full circle here. It makes me think about that rude customer that I was telling you about. That anecdote, that story earlier, and how he was projecting whatever anger or frustration he was having in his own life. And it likely had nothing to do with trying to start a business, and he's frustrated. That's not the analogy I'm trying to make. But whatever frustration he's having, he's not addressing it. He's not taking action. So I fundamentally think that the idea of not taking action is part of the problem. So whether you have an idea that you want to try out or whatever, just try a little bit. Start with your community. I'm so, so, so inspired by it. And also why it inspires me to stay in Portland, Oregon, and remain in the community, the business community especially the POC community is that in a pandemic I saw so many entrepreneurs in the food business, let's say, when restaurants were closing or whatever, I had friends or peers that were making money month over month, constantly growing, Instagram followers are just exploding, write-ups are all over the place. Some even won awards like National Awards or got featured in Bon Appetit. And that's because some of these people, for instance, had full-time jobs and they're like, I really love my grandma's cake recipe. Maybe it's like a Vietnamese cake or something. I'm using this as an example. 

I really like that. I'm just going to start baking it on the weekends and see if anyone wants to buy them. Or maybe I'll do a pop-up with a coffee shop. Why not? Then it sells out. Next weekend it sells out again. It keeps going, keeps going, and now, you can't keep up. You're like, oh my God, I actually have to quit my job because I'm making enough money not only to live but to actually make something of this. That kind of stuff inspires me so much because, again, only a fellow small business owner would know what it feels like because all of us have been in that place. Like you've been in that place, Nikki. But to see that and to feel that energy, helps to remind me of where I'm at now. Even in year six of pandemic year number two, there was so much crisis and complications, and then the human experience on top of that, still here and still doing it. I'm still telling myself that now actively every day like, you're doing it. That's the win. That's as simple as that. If you talk to me three years ago, it would've been like, you know, it was a huge honor to be named X, Y, and Z on some awards list or whatever. Of course, that stuff is really nice. But to me, I actually feel like the accolades don't really mean anything if your mind isn't straight. 

Media stuff is a liar. I'm going to let the listeners decide on what I mean when I say that. I'm very grateful for the press. I have found that the media can inflate what one sees, not only in oneself, inflate or deflate, I mean both really. It can inflate and deflate how one sees themselves as well as how people view them, and also how they view their business. And so, if you're not surrounded by the right people, the right influences, that can get messy really quickly. So I'm grateful that my family has supported me, even though they felt very uncomfortable all these years of me trying to play this startup thing, and the handful of close friends I have around me. And just really focusing on my energy, my time, and that perseverance and choosing who I choose to be vulnerable with, it's been one of those things that have been able to keep me going, especially through such a complicated time. 

Nikki Rogers: Yes. I think you bring up an important point that media coverage is not your business. The media does not equate to revenue all the time. There's a story that can be told in the media that does not match reality in your business. 

Lynn Le: That's right. Yes, it doesn't make it any less true. Even on a personal level, I've stopped using my personal Instagram. Our company's Instagram is still alive and well, but on a personal level, I haven't really used my personal Instagram for about a year. And I check every now and then, just making sure I didn't miss anything important in my direct messages. But I can't explain how good it's been for my head and my heart because going back to my comment around empathy and living in a super divisive time, a time of no nuance. You lose that nuance because we allow the memes, the illustrations, the graphics to speak for us. I don't think that is enough to explain anyone's existence, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. I hope and pray that people will finally learn to use with caution. I don't know that that will happen. But I just think that circling this back to business owners, just to remember that the promotion on social media, there's a fine line because there can come a point. Like when I was younger, not that I'm so old, I'm 32 right now. But It's amazing in my late twenties versus where I am now, how I viewed Instagram and social media then versus now.

So back then, I thought, oh, I have to be posting all the time as it relates to the connection to Society Nine and the business. The success of the business is not going to happen if I don't do X, Y, and Z on my personal Instagram too. And I started realizing more and more that the level of respect or the connections that I was making in the industry, the rapport or whatever, had nothing to do with how many followers I had or what press coverage I got. It had to do more with people's respect for me as a person and their sense of trust in my character that they want to associate with me. And that goes into personal as well as some of these harder political or cultural conversations, the hard conversations that we're all having right now. And for me, as a human being, that's also how I have found a way to process everything that's going on as a human. Smiling at the person in the line that's next to me. Maybe making some small talk, because those types of exchanges go a long way because you start realizing that people were not born hating others, and there is a space and opportunity to break cycles. It's hard to choose to do that as a woman of color, but I remember when I was a kid, I grew up in Olympia, Washington which does not have a lot of people of color. And I remember experiencing some chink racist jokes, and I remember feeling really upset. I was seven. I came home to my grandparents and I was crying. I was telling my grandpa, I was sad because people were making fun of me because of my eyes and my voice. It's the way that I spoke and the food I ate. And I remember him saying, yes, I know it's really hurtful and it's not fair. But just remember that whatever anger or sadness you're feeling inside, it can be a cancer. It's not going to kill you today, but it can kill you very slowly. I was seven years old, what did I understand? But as infuriating as even now, as a grown adult woman, seeing, receiving, experiencing any sort of racist or misogynistic comment or energy or vibe from anyone towards other people too, when I witness it, I take a deep breath and I asked myself, I'm like, what happened to you? What happened to you to feel that you had to say or do that? That is weirdly the piece that I found because I just remembered that somebody hurt them. 

Nikki Rogers: Hurt people, hurt people. So I'm always like, who hurt you? Because this is not about me. This is really about you. 

Lynn Le: Yes. It doesn't take away that danger. people's lives are literally in danger because of this anger. So that doesn't take it away, but in just day-to-day operations and how I engage with space in the world, that's just the lens I try to look at. I'm hyper-aware probably to an annoying degree like when I go to a mall or a store, I start looking around, acquainting myself with faces, looking at people's hands. But aside from that, I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Nikki Rogers: Got it. One, you've talked a bit about raising money and raising capital. What are some words of advice that you would give to folks of balancing raising capital and running their business? And also in with that, I know you spent some time working with a small VC. In balancing that raising money and running the business, what are some two or three tips that you would give to folks to prevent some of the mistakes that you might see others making? 

Lynn Le: Well, fundraising is a really tough journey because everyone's journey is different. I think going back to my point about the media and the press, there's a misperception as to what fundraising is actually like, because the only thing that the business press will talk about is so-and-so tech companies just raising a $10 million Series A round. To the average business owner, they're like, what? What does that even mean? And also, how do they get to a million dollars? That's crazy. Their software isn't even live yet. So I just think that when it comes to fundraising, I think the first and most important thing is, do the research on what venture capital actually needs because to say that you want to fundraise for your business, doesn't just mean, oh, I'm going to apply to a bank and see if I can get a loan. That is different from using that same tech company example. The capital that that tech company raised at $10 million, that comes with a lot of contingencies. With the bank, the only contingency is your assets, whatever it is that you put up. And that's it, they don't care what happens to you. With the investor, the venture capital example, that's a little different. They might care a little bit about what happens to you because now, they have a $10 million stake in your business. So that's a little different. 

But the expectations are also really steep. And the hustle culture, if any of you are familiar with that term, comes from somewhere. And it comes from the startup world of, I just raised $10 million for my tech startup and the product is not even in the market yet. And I gotta grind because we've got to be the next Facebook or the next Instagram or whatever. And that type of hustle culture, it comes from that. Now, I'm making blanket statements about venture capital. But generally speaking, if you want to know where that came from, it came from Silicon Valley. It came from just general startup culture between Silicon Valley, New York, and so forth. And so, I think if you want to fundraise as an entrepreneur, really ask yourself, what are you willing to trade for that money? And I'm not talking about ownership or just ownership. Yes, there's a part of that. 

You also have to ask yourself, what kind of capital do you want? Because again, if you're like, I really need the capital but I'm just going to go with the bank because I'd rather just speak to the bank. And I know my terms, if there's interest, I got to make monthly payments. That's that. And if I go bankrupt, then unfortunately I have to deal with it with the bank. Okay, they take my house, they take my car. I don't know. That's different than, I'm going to raise $10 million with this venture capital fund and they now are 30% owner of the business. My ownership does go down by X percent. I might no longer be the majority owner, but the benefit I get is the connections they have in the industry, distribution, or whatever. All these benefits that you get are networking effects. But the trade-off is you're the race horse that they're betting on as the founder, or founders if you have multiple. You're the racehorse. So that is going to come with expectations, just plain and simple. And so you have to ask yourself this whole idea of like, who do you answer to? It's tricky because you can have positive relationships with investors too. Like I'm very grateful, we have a few small investors in Sinai to help me capitalize on inventory and growth initiatives for the business.

But it's not that venture capital money, it's individuals who said, I believe in this, I want to invest. And the relationship I have with them is not targeted on the back, it's very collaborative. But I also established that culture. I've also turned down investors or said, no, I'm not going to reach out to that person or fund or whatever because the energy is not right. And it's just like dating, you have to vet out the energy. If you're not going to go the traditional bank or microlender or SBA route, you've really got to make sure that you feel really comfortable about who it is that you're working with. Because that will materially impact your mental wellbeing, which then materially impacts how you manage and lead the business. So that's my advice on fundraising. There was so much more to fundraising, it can go so many different ways of how you can fund a business. It's all hard. That's the bad news. I got to tell you that no matter what path you are on, it's going to be hard. But I think the side hustling at the first couple of months, years or whatever, to really get product-market fit or traction before you justify quitting and then raising money to expand the vision or go harder at it, is the way to go.

Nikki Rogers: Got it. Great tips. Great tips. Well, a few more questions before we wrap up. So these are two questions I ask every guest. What are two songs that are on your power playlist, and why? 

Lynn Le: Ooh. Okay. I already know. Okay, the first one is, Win Some, Lose Some by Big Sean. It's a super emotional song, but it's so good. It hits on everything that Big Sean says in that song is like, wow, this is the entrepreneurial experience. Granted that he's rapping from the perspective of a black man. I am not in any way as a Vietnamese woman equating my life experience to a black man's experience. But I'm saying like, he's got some good lines in there. That's just anyone could relate to. So that's one. And the other one would be, Get Up 10 by Cardi B, which is like, okay. It's like when I say that they're like, oh, of course, you would say that. Even the name of the song is so boxing. And I'm like, but it's good. It's like the one song she has on her first album that's not pop radio. She cuts that track. That's like the fire then I'm just like, sometimes I just need to hear it. That's my favorite boxing song. Sometimes I put that on repeat and I just listen to that, and I just beat the crap out of the bag and I just feel like, ooh. I can hear the song in my head right now. It makes me want to go.

Nikki Rogers: Love it. I love it. And, what is one book that has really changed the way you view your business? 

Lynn Le: I feel like this book is a very startup book. I feel bad that it's not very exciting. But it is honestly the book that inspired me to do it all. And I'm sure this guy makes so much money off of this book and his speaking engagements that, you know. It's called, Start With Why, and it's by Simon Sinek. That book is so genius. I feel so much of what I've talked about. Everything that I've been saying throughout the podcast, whether it's this idea of like, okay, what product is it that you're making? How does it enable the customer to do X, Y, Z? And then what's the third layer? What's the fourth layer? He really does it, and for anyone who's listening who hasn't read it, here's the thing that's beautiful about that book. He does the same thing, talking about legacy brands. Throughout the whole book, he talks about, why did Apple become the behemoth? People forget that Steve Jobs was fired or pushed out by his board once upon a time because the company was not doing well.

A lot of these tech companies weren't doing well and their world-renowned CEOs weren't doing well. But it's like, why did they keep persisting? It's because at least in the case of Steve Jobs, he pivoted. He started thinking less about tech, tech, tech, and more of what does this phone enables people to do? That was the game-changer. I think if you want any inspiration, look at his keynote on when he launched the iPhone because we take that stuff for granted now. But you're like, wow, this guy had the audacity to push out a computer phone. People thought that it was some weird Y2K crap, at that time. For real, like Tamagotchi stuff. Where are the fools now? Where are the fools? And so, I think that's what I remind myself when I'm feeling really low is, I'm not going to sugar coat, every founder has to have that, what happens if this all comes to an end? And for me, I've thought about it in the context of, like last year, we didn't know what to expect with the gym industry. I was like, we might go bankrupt because if this pandemic is really this legit crazy and gyms just cannot open forever, what's going to happen? So I had to have a lot of philosophical conversations with myself last year, especially with just like, okay, well, is this the maiden year like the final year? Just, goodbye.

And what I realized is that, I'm grateful that at least even if we didn't exist anymore, that we're in the conversation. When people talk about those couple of years, oh yes, remember that brand? I wish they were still making stuff. That's some legacy right there. And to think that before we came around, no one talked about us. No one talked about the idea of a women's boxing glove. So I think I've had to change and mature a lot on what I think about when it comes to legacy. And I really credit that book. Man, I don't want to give that guy credit because he makes so much money. It's like, bro, you don't need my height. But that still has such a true, true, true, impact on my life. 

Nikki Rogers: Well, great. We'll definitely share that with the listeners. Before we wrap up, can you let people know how they can find you, how they can reach out to you?

Lynn Le: Yes. So our website is societynine.com, and our Instagram is also @societynine. And yes, we'd love to hear from you. I'm really excited to have been invited to be on the podcast. And if anyone has any questions, it doesn't have to be related to the product. We get emails sometimes from people who are like, I live in Oakland and I want to try boxing. But I don't know where it's super welcoming for newcomers or for women, or whatever. We've become this informal Yelp of boxing fitness, kickboxing fitness training. And people come to us asking questions like that all the time, and I'm really grateful for that trust. So no question is a dumb question. That's what we always say. 

Nikki Rogers: I love it. Well, Lynn, it has been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. You have gotten me fired up. I'm looking for the nearest kickboxing gym. I think I'm going to start with kickboxing, and we'll see what happens after that. But your description of hitting the bag and what it feels like, you got me fired up. Maybe I can try this, so I'll keep in touch. I'll let you know. 

Lynn Le: Please. Yes. Please do. 

Nikki Rogers: When I'm in the gym, I'll definitely be rocking up here with Society Nine gloves. 

Lynn Le: And listen to that song, Get Up 10. I swear to you. 

Nikki Rogers: It'll be in my first playlist to get the jabs. 

Lynn Le: I'm going to feel bad for the person who crosses you first after you listen to that song because I'm telling you, it's going to transform you. There are some songs, that's why like, whenever fighters always say, oh, this song is totally my fight song. When you do the workout or whatever, that song I'm telling you. Afterward, it's just like, ooh, rage cage. 

Nikki Rogers: Well, thanks, Lynn. And I look forward to seeing what happens next with Society Nine. 

Lynn Le: Awesome. Thanks, Nikki.

Nikki Rogers: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Women Thriving in Business Podcasts. If you like this episode, share it with a friend. You can also join us on social media to share your feedback and comments. We'd love to hear from you. Be sure to like, review and subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Until next week, keep thriving.